Talk:3 March 2022 Chernihiv bombing

Merging with main article

Shouldn't we just merge this article into the main article for Battle of Chernihiv? UserXpetVarpet (talk) 13:08, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

No, because the war crime was not a battle. Please read Geneva Conventions, war crime, and International Criminal Court to familiarise yourself with what is considered a legal military action versus what is considered a war crime in current international law. Boud (talk) 16:02, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Whether or not this is a war crime (accused or adjudicated on) has no bearing on whether or not it needs to have a separate article. Crimes of one kind or another are often included within other incidents or events. If there is a huge amount of new material, or prosecutions etc, the situation could change, but at present this would IMO also be better covered as an element of the 'siege' article. Pincrete (talk) 11:00, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 17 March 2022edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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2022 Chernihiv bombing → 2022 Chernihiv bombing on civilians – I think this article needs a new title. There is a whole battle going on in Chernihiv. It's clear that the city has been bombed a lot. But this article seems to exclusively refer to the 3 March bombing that killed 47 people. However, the title does not exactly reflect that. It is titled as if it covered every single bombing that happened on the city in 2022, when such is not the case. We can take example of other articles with unorthodox titles such as NATO bombing of Albanian refugees near Gjakova and propose a new one. "2022 Chernihiv bombing on civilians" is not perfect as probably more civilians have died in the city as a result of bombings but I think it'd get us closer to a satisfactory option. Adding "3 March" into the title is probably not preferred so other options could be "2022 Chernihiv residential area bombing" or "2022 bombing of a residential area in Chernihiv", and "2022 Vacheslava Chornovola and Kruhova streets bombing" (probably a bad option). We could also follow French Wikipedia's steps and title it as a massacre. Although there was another murder of civilians in Chernihiv yesterday so maybe we shouldn't chose this option. Super Ψ Dro 14:53, 17 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. ---CX Zoom(^he/_him) (^{let's talk}|_contribs) 20:25, 30 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. NW1223 <Howl at me•My hunts> 02:36, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

• Support (see update below) new title, but unclear what it should be. Oppose 2022 Chernihiv bombing on civilians as grammatically awkward. The first street is probably named after Viacheslav Chornovil, with the cyrillic original В'ячесла́в Чорнові́л. I assume that we currently have "...novol(a)" from transcription variations. Since this is not the only bombing of civilians (and of a breadline) in this invasion and in this town, I think that using the street names is justified, in shortened form. So I suggest 2022 Chornovila–Kruhova breadline massacre or 2022 Chornovila–Kruhova bombing, as descriptive names. In at least some slavic languages, you often don't bother saying "street", and the "-a" at the end (meaning something like "of") is a hint that you're talking about a street. Or maybe even without 2022 if these are considered unambiguous enough? Boud (talk) 01:12, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Not sure about removing half of the first street's name. Since we're going to base the title of this article on streets, we better write them fully. We wouldn't do this if it was about cities instead. 2022 Viacheslava Chornovila–Kruhova bombing is the best option in my opinion. Super Ψ Dro 14:20, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Viacheslav is the given name, Chornovil the family name; often just the family name is used for brevity in talking about street names. See Gagarina Street, Warsaw and then the Polish equivalent pl:Ulica Jurija Gagarina w Warszawie - it's a bit like saying "at Biden's" instead of "at the Street of Joe Biden". We would probably say the "Biden–Putin Summit" rather than the "Joe Biden–Vladimir Putin Summit" in the hypothetical case that a meeting between the two became sufficiently notable, even if the summit had a formal title include both persons' given names. Anyway, I've invited WikiProject UA people to give advice here. Boud (talk) 15:29, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

I don't know. I will wait for the opinion of other users for further comment on this. In any case, I support moving to "2022 Chornovila–Kruhova bombing" before keeping this title. Super Ψ Dro 18:58, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

• Either March 3, 2022 Chernihiv bombing or the already suggested 2022 Chornovila–Kruhova bombing.--3E1I5S8B9RF7 (talk) 08:52, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
• comment '2022 Chernihiv bombing of civilians' or '2022 bombing of civilians in Chernihiv' are more grammatically correct—blindlynx 14:24, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support  The name with the date is unambiguous. A name with street names is okay too. —Michael Z. 22:14, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose as proposed The suggested new name is horrible, there have been several bombings that have affected civilians. Support renaming to something per nom, there are several bombings, since it's a big battle in the middle of a war. Alternative move to 2022 March 3 bombing in Chernihiv or 2022 March 3 Chernihiv bombing. -- use YYYYMMMDD format, as that makes the most logical and sorting sense. -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 01:39, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose proposed name, Support date-name: 2022 March 3 Chernihiv bombing or Chernihiv bombing of March 3, 2022. This article must be distinguished from the wider bombing of Chernihiv, and the date seems best distinguisher at this point. (If the incident grows in notoriety, some name will emerge and the article can be renamed again then.) --R. S. Shaw (talk) 02:37, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support: 2022 Chornovila–Kruhova bombing or 3 March Chernihiv bombing or 3 March 2022 Chernihiv bombing. Reasons: breadline massacre doesn't seem to be popular; if the street location is used, then the year should be a likely date identification that people would use when searching; if a date is used with the town instead of streets, then these would be the dm or dmy dates (no particular reason for US style dates; Ukraine is in Europe). Boud (talk) 23:26, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Oppose proposed title, support dated title as above. Buttons0603 (talk) 17:01, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

• Comment as nominator, I have no objection to 3 March 2022 Chernihiv bombing since it constitutes an improvement, but several proposals here don't use dd/mm/yy. We should use this system as it is the one used in Ukraine [1]. Super Ψ Dro 17:30, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose proposed new title BobNesh (talk) 14:12, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
• 3 March Chernihiv bombing is the only viable suggestion here, names based on Ukrainian street names are unlikely to be familiar to non-Ukr readers as the street name hasn't been much covered, and 'of civilians' doesn't distinguish the subject sufficiently (so many other bombings of civilians - alas). Personally I think this would better serve the readers by being within the 'siege' article, which at present is little more than an 'outline diary' of the siege, but if kept separate, the naming policy is the name most likely to be familiar to a general Eng, speaking readership. Pincrete (talk) 11:10, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Change to 3 March 2022 Chernihiv attack As the page 16 March 2022 Chernihiv breadline attack has already been moved. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 17:59, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment Some people hav floated dating the title or a different form of the title (see Boud's comment). Therefore, I am relisting to get consensus for this title. NW1223 <Howl at me•My hunts> 02:43, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

• How is this still ongoing? Just move this to 3 March 2022 Chernihiv bombing already. Most people here support it, apart of an editor who proposed "attack" instead of "bombing". Super Ψ Dro 13:20, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

  Y Doing so. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 13:24, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposaledit]

I think we should create an "Bombing of Chernihiv" article and include not only this bombing and the breadline attack, but also other similar bombings in the city, any thoughts?SnoopyBird (talk) 21:19, 8 August 2023 (UTC)