Wikipedia:Peer review/George Washington/archive1

George Washington

Wonderous article. However, She could not find anything lacking, but realized that more than just one person will need to read this before it makes FA. Many FAC's have skipped a peer review, and they have suffered on realitively issues of copyediting, image use tags, etc. So, I'm listing it here first. Let me know what you think. --Trevdna 05:19, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• Something seems wrong with "His fame is based on..building the first major nation dedicated to the republican principle that the people are sovereign and politically equal." Even if America really is the first nation to do this (ignoring Switzerland, Ancient greece etc), I dont think this is the reason for his 'fame' - it implies that if America was 2nd, he would have been more famous. Also "first successful colonial revolt" implies there were others later. Astrokey44 13:00, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• Fixed. I completely revamped that opening paragraph. --Trevdna 15:37, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• Two major problems I see: (1) The article needs better sourcing, it's not clear which if any of the books in the further reading section actually source the information in the article. Some inline citations would help as well. (2) The article needs a summary of what he actually did as President, in prose, not simply a link to the sub-article. Christopher Parham (talk) 17:14, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• I sucessfully applied your second suggestion. However, as I have not worked on this article before now, I cannot say for certainty where the references for each factoid are located. It will be a killer project to do, especially as a one-man undertaking. I'll ask for help directly on the talk page, and come back to it when I have more time. Thank you for your help. --Trevdna 23:32, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• I think it would be not quite as difficult as you think; a fair amount of material is already directly sourced in the text as "Historian XXX said BLAH" and some of these even identify the book. These just need to be converted to a more traditional reference style. Some parts, though, would indeed require more work. Christopher Parham (talk) 00:59, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

• Of all the problems this article could have, sourcing is the worst for me. I have no clue about what came from where, and would have to check the books out from my public library to do anything with it. I don't know how this one is going to be fixed. --Trevdna 18:33, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

• I agree that the article needs better sourcing. One note for a piece of this size and importance just isn't enough. It may be worth mentioning in reference to the slavery issue that many slates did abolish slavery following the revolution. It had been legal in every colony, although rare in the northern ones. Pennsylvania did follow a plan something like what Washington envisioned for the south: phasing out slavery gradually over several decades. It's good to see the most important part of Washington's legacy well described: he was the rare revolutionary who created a stable tradition by relinquishing power. However there must be more to say about his two terms as a president than that. Another part of George Washington's legacy deserves mention: his address to the Jews of Newport, Rhode Island. This affirmation of tolerance is well remembered within the Jewish community and helped set the unusual United States precedent of a religiously neutral government. Durova 03:59, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

• That section is a summary from the main article on the Washington Administration. I agree that there is probably more to do on that article, but does the subarticle need to be good for the main article to be featured? I didn't think so, but I could be wrong. I don't know anything about that address, and I do not know anyone who does (besides you maybe). --Trevdna 18:33, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

This gets over 19,000 Google hits. I've heard representatives from the Jewish community cite this with the comment that this is the only country (outside of Israel) whose founding leader officially welcomed them as full citizens. Durova 03:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

• University of Virginia
• PBS
• Jewish Virtual Library

• Tell you what - I'll add it to Washington Administration. However, looking at this from a non-Jewish POV, I don't think that this is worth mentioning in the main article. The only thing that made it in was the Whiskey Rebellion (it was a bit arbitrary, I know, but you want to keep the articles down quite a bit.) If they are interested, they may wish to go to the main article. Is this acceptable to you? --Trevdna 06:00, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

• OK, I did it. It's located here. Please make it better. It's horribly short, and doesn't say much about the subject right now, but it will do. --Trevdna 03:53, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

• Comment I was skimming and I was suprised that this much more iconic image was not in the lead. --HereToHelp (talk) 23:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

• It wasn't in there at all before I put it in a few days ago, instead of a closeup of a picture already used! I agree with you as well - I was suprised myself, but I think that the people who have seen that picture may welcome a change. --Trevdna 18:36, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

That famous portrait has been in the lead section previously, on a couple of occasions, as have several others. Editors rearrange the images of Washington the way my wife rearranges the living room furniture: it can happen at any time, when you least expect it, with no reason given. -Kevin Myers | (complaint dept.) 21:11, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

• The article was okay, but it needs additions in his personal life. Much is known about his personal life. Talk to you later.

Bibliomaniac15 18:36, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

• I guess we won't need any info on what he ate. This article is pretty detailed, but it might warrant a little more research.

Bibliomaniac15 21:02, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

• Several US Navy ships have been named USS George Washington, yet the "Retirement, Death, and Honors" section does not make note of this. TomStar81 23:24, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

The Monuments & Memorials section deals with this. --Trevdna 21:35, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

• "In March 1783, Washington learned about a conspiracy that was being planned by some of his officers who were upset about back pay in the Continental Army's winter camp at Newburgh, New York. He was able to defuse this plot." - interested: how did you defuse this plot? - Ta bu shi da yu 03:20, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

• OK, I see some major problems: the structure. It's all over the place! Personal information should be merged into his main life, I would suggest that trivia be merged into the main article, otherwise it should be removed (do we really need the absurdity that George Washington was gay in this article?!), farewell address should be in it's own article and then summarised (not have large slabs of text quoted in the section). Washington and slavery, and his religious beliefs should most likely go in their own top-level sections. There is a distinct lack of notes in the article. It's great to have 2ndary sources, but what sections refer to what 2ndary sources? - Ta bu shi da yu 03:40, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

JJstroker added that text to the Farewell address - I don't think it was a good idea, and I'm saying something about it to him on his talk page.

I agree with you that the Personal information section should be reworked, but the subsections are fine as it is (even if the trivia section is of dubious encyclopedic quality). They don't exactly fit into the chronological biography of his life - perhaps the main section should be named something else, instead of being merged? --Trevdna 21:35, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Summarize his farewell address for us lazy people!