Jump to content

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Parking Lot is Full

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Majorly (o rly?) 13:59, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[]

The Parking Lot is Full

[edit]
The Parking Lot is Full (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Non-notable. Unreferenced. And very very few google hits. This started as a PROD but there was enough objection that I felt like it should be an AfD instead. WoohookittyWoohoo! 11:56, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[]

Reply: have you any WP:RS sources, perhaps amongst those numerous relevant Google hits (I count 57 of them) [1], to show that this is indeed a notable webcomic? As for articles on other webcomics: many have already been deleted, probably some more will follow. Fram 06:09, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[]
Reply to Fram Among the much more numerous hits for "The parking lot is full" + comic (~1000), there are is an interview[2] that gives a brief history of the comic, starting with a print origin in a student newspaper. As this review asserts[3], in spite of its lack of fame, it may have been one of the very first webcomics. It mostly seems to be reviewed in webzines[4], but I'm having no trouble finding a lot of webzine reviews. Some come from interesting sources that I would not have expected to review webcomics.[5] [6] I think the case can be made that this is one of those cases where a webcomic is notable without being popular or famous. Balancer 14:44, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[]
None of these sources are reliable sources as far as I can see. The Humaniststudies.org one comes perhaps closest, but then again, it is not a review of the comic, just mentioning that they publish it along with others in their ezine (this link gives the staff of the magazine, making clear that it is not the kind of magazine we normally consider as reliable, having only one editor[7]). 1995, while certainly not late, is not exceptionally early for a webcomic (the review you cite talks about 1993, but then it was published in a student newspaper, not as a webcomic, giving an indication of the reliability of such reviews). As for groundbreaking... in what independently verified way? I know that deletion isn't a substitute for cleanup or sourcing, but then again, that wasn't my intention. I had seen the other reviews as well, but they are non notable or non reliable (mostly online) publications (webzines), so I don't see what they change to the deletion rationale. Fram 16:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[]
About half of the ones I mentioned fail independence, which is why I didn't say "strong keep," and the rest are marginally "published" online; however, if I could find that many sources hovering near the borderline of the WP:RS standards in less than five minutes of looking, it seems a pretty sure bet that it passes WP:N standards overall. In retrospect, it's not surprising that there are only a couple thousand pages on the web that mention this comic, seeing as it ended five years ago. Balancer 17:07, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[]
Many sources which fail WP:RS does not mean that there are probably some sources meeting WP:RS as well. Let me point out that your previous posts, while perhaps not having that intention, at least convinced the next editor wrongly that the comic is "recognized as having historical significance", when no such thing is shown except in one user-supplied and mistaken review. As for the "couple thousand pages", all 5 pages you gave as a reference were included in my initial search of 57 distinct Google hits, indicating that a) it was a quite good and fair search for reviews of this comic and b) there isn't probably that much more you can find about it on the internet. So basically, we still have a webcomic with only about 50 websites referencing it in slightly more than a passing way (at least mentioning the author), and depending on your criteria, only one or none of these sources could pass WP:RS. Which rather conclusively means that for all we have been able to find, it still clearely fails WP:NOTE. Fram 20:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[]
I knew that before, from other sources. --Kizor 20:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[]
Actually, since I don't start getting unrelated hits until the eighth page of search terms (results 71-80), and I keep finding relevant reviews of the comic hundreds of results down the list, your search definitely underrepresents the number of pages about TPIF, just as your searches have typically severely underrepresented comics. Those pages that I pulled out, several of which either come very close to meeting WP:RS, or could be argued to meet it, although typically not also the independence criterion for WP:N, are simply the first few reviews. Five years is a long time on the internet, and I have to say that I was shocked to find such a quantity of solid reviews online after all this time.
To emphasize how much you're missing through your inadequate searches, hit #463 was tantalizingly titled "Notable Webcomics" and dated from last summer. It did only contain a relatively brief user-posted review, of course, but it's gross misrepresentation to claim that it's only referenced on 50 websites.Balancer 23:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[]
So basically, "how much I am missing through my inadequate searches" which returned all your previously given links, are all not meeting WP:RS, just like I expected. So in what way, relevant to this discussion which is intended to see if this comic meets the Wikipedia guidelines, was my search inadequate? It was a search to look for multiple independent reviews (excluding trivial mentions) by reliable sources, of which your extended search didn't return any: this was to be expected, since it would be very unusual to have a thorough review in a serious magazine or newspaper that didn't even mention the author of the comic. Look, could you please provide the necessary reliable sources to support your keep !vote instead of attacking the methods used by the nominator? I appreciate the effort you have put in your search, but if it doesn't return anything further, just say so please.~ Fram 06:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[]
To invoke the Search engine test in claiming that an article is not be notable because it has low hits is an entirely different matter from searching for reliable and independent sources with non-trivial mentions. When you emphasize the low hit count your search has received, you are invoking (wrongly) the notion that this is a completely obscure topic, web content that the web doesn't even talk about.
As matters stand, the fact that the webcomic was (a) published in print by a source that may or may not qualify under WP:RS (student newspapers vary widely in this regard) and (b) talked about by, as I've pointed out, numerous sources whose status under WP:RS is open to question either way was enough for me to suggest that the article be kept on the basis of that open question and the strong probability that additional sources whose status is less unclear would soon be discovered (see Kizor's comment for clear vindication of that estimation). Balancer 11:58, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[]
... But none of your claims is supported by WP:RS, making it basically a WP:ILIKEIT vote. Fram 06:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[]
...except for the fact that it wasn't particularly early and wasn't particularly influential? Fram 21:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/The_Parking_Lot_is_Full&oldid=1138850886"