Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Kosky

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. I agree that ARIA nominations do not contribute to notability. The "delete" !votes have the stronger arguments. Randykitty (talk) 16:14, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[]

Paul Kosky[edit]

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No sources other than discogs, nothing to suggest subject passes WP:GNG or WP:CREATIVE. Yunshui ^雲 _水 13:51, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Keep, The Age calls him ...highly influential former co-manager and producer ... He and his projects such as Killing Heidi or Wah Wah Music are frequently mentioned in Billboard. He has collaborated with Rage Against the Machine and Crowded House, according to allmusic.com and abc.net.au. The Sydney Morning Herald mentions his influence on early production of Killing Heidi. Redirect to the article about the band would be another option, but I would prefer to keep it separately, given that he collaborated with multiple notable subjects. --Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 14:26, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:27, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:27, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:27, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[]

I created this page and I am not Paul Kosky, I have added more references to this page including BRW article and Absolute Sound, Limited, 1991. There are more references from MFTCC & RATM . Kosky's career has been highly influential too many musicians and to belittle Aria Award nominations is immature. Zoltan Steal (talk) 08:02, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[]

What I'm seeing is a large number of passing mentions showing that he's worked with a number of notable acts. No-one is disputing this, but it takes more than association with notability to make a person notable. Where is the substantial, independent, in-depth coverage of Paul Kosky himself that GNG requires? Yunshui ^雲 _水 08:15, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Delete One article in theage newspaper from 10 years ago isn't that notable. I don't doubt that this person worked on a lot of music in australia, but so has everyone in the industry. Except for Killing Heidi, none of the referenced bands or web pages (other than discogs) mentions him by name. And considering the size of the australian industry and the number of awards given out at the ARIAs, it's not surprising he has some nominations. The way the current article is written, it talks up his achievements far more than the references support. At the very least this article needs a major triage back to the facts, removal of all the original research (seemingly written by Kosky himself) and a more sensible tabular format with fully reference credits. As it is, it appears as though Kosky is using wikipedia as his resume & media relations outlet. Whistlemethis (talk) 00:16, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Keep subject has at least three ARIA noms per refs just added. Only one nom is needed to meet WP:BAND Criterion#6 and hence obtain sufficient notability for an article. To Whistlemethis: there is no limit to the number of awards the premier national body presents each year; there is no requirement to consider the population size of that nation nor the size of its music industry.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:51, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Kosky's not a musician, though, so WP:BAND doesn't apply. The ARIA awards would satisfy WP:ANYBIO, but ANYBIO is an indicator of probable notability, not a notability requirement. I'd contest that if the ARIA awards are all that he is notable for, and if the only coverage of this is his name being listed on the ARIA webpage, with no further coverage, then this is not sufficient to warrant an article. All we can usefully say about him, with reference to sources, is that he was nominated for three ARIA awards - that doesn't add up to a useable article. Yunshui ^雲 _水 10:05, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Actually he does sometimes work as a musician, (see here) although principally known for his work as a producer, engineer, manager &c. So I see your point. Aside from ANYBIO, consider also WP:Creative criterion 3: e.g. Killing Heidi's Reflector: a No. 1 ARIA album which won four Awards and received five noms. The subject provided Engineering, Guitar, Keyboards, Mixing, Percussion, Producing, String Arrangements, Vocals (Background) and was their Talent Manager. Clearly he played a major role in co-creating this significant/well known work which has been the subject of numerous reviews.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:50, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Reviews of Reflector: AllMusic, Pop Matters and Sputnik Music. To varying degrees they all mention the subject.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:10, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Delete, while the sources identified by User:Vejvančický are something at least, they just mention Kosky's involvement with other notable acts, they're not about Kosky himself. I don't believe they comprise significant enough coverage to meet the WP:GNG. I also disagree strongly that being nominated for an ARIA award is an indicator of notability; these days you can pick up a nomination along with a burger and shake at the drive-thru. Actually winning might be better, but it doesn't appear that Kosky has managed that yet. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 08:11, 27 July 2014 (UTC).[]

Keep. the ARIA nominations meet WP:ANYBIO. Doctorhawkes (talk) 10:05, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Keep sufficient references to clearly establish notability . Dan arndt (talk) 00:58, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Delete Fails WP:GNG. Being associated, as previously mentioned, with multiple notable persons/groups does not make one notable in their own right. AlanS (talk) 05:40, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jim Carter (from public cyber) 11:50, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Delete per nom & everyone above - Non notable producer - Fails GNG . –Davey2010 • (talk) 13:33, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Delete - The article references sites that don't even mention the subject. The need to do so indicates that the subject is not actually notable.--Rpclod (talk) 18:05, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[]

Keep - Although many people do get nominated for Aria awards, Kosky has been a finalist (the final 5) in each of the listed categories, which is no easy task. References will be edited within the next 48hrs. Zoltan Steal (talk) 00:13, 4 August 2014 (UTC)[]

references will be updated in the next few days Zoltan Steal (talk) 05:08, 6 August 2014 (UTC)[]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.