Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/One Land, Five Nations

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep the whole shebang. Despite a few !votes from SPAs there are no arguments for deletion aside from the nominator. No prejudice against renominating any of these articles individually. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:43, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[]

One Land, Five Nations

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NOTFILM, and no page on IMDB and during a Google search no reliable source to demonstrate that the film is notable. The article is unsourced. Farhikht (talk) 14:50, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[]

I am also nominating the following related page for the same reason as stated above:

Keep. Some of these articles were previously put up for deletion and it was decided to keep them. It is hard to find references online because the Iranian government places a strong censorship on information about Iranian films and their content. Therefore Iranian film makers have a hard time exporting their films to the western world. As Pouya sh says, there are many references to this film in Iranian magazines. To delete this article would show inconsistency, and would help the Iranian government with their censorship, which would totally defeat the point of having a "free" encyclopedia. SuperCrab (talk) 18:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Keep. Two reasons: 1. Some of these films such as A Man Called Brian clearly have references and have participated in international film festivals, but they have been listed with the unsourced films in one group. 2. These are mostly Iranian films, and in Iran the internet is not as widespread (certinly not back in 80s and 90s), so the many magazines and critics that have published articles on these films in Iran back in the 80s and 90s are not (yet) available on the internet to be given as sources. Wikipedia is also a source of information about notable topics that are in countries with little or slow internet access! Pouya sh (talk) 19:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Keep I agree with Pouya sh on this. You have to be careful about removing a complete man's work from WP. Also, the fact that One Land, Five Nations isn't in IMDB isn't a concern. The reality is that the majority of the films made in the world aren't in IMDB. Its a very western centric database, that isn't updatated that quickly as regards foreign films. Only the most popular films make, not the most notable. scope_creep (talk) 22:31, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Comment: The reason of AfD is that there is no source for the article and it fails WP:NOTFILM, and by talking about IMDB I just wanted to say that even in this database you can't find the name of these films. You can't vote without applying on policies and guidelines, we are here to reach a consensus. Pouya sh clearly says that there is no English source for the articles on the net (even for Homeless (2006) which is in English?), ok, but is there any Persian source? or at least is there any reviews in a magazine like Iranian Film magazine? Or you mean that we have to keep the article without reason?Farhikht (talk) 11:20, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Iranian Film magazine is the most popular film magazine in Iran, yet its own article on wikipedia is only one line in length! You see the problem? Iran is not as connected to the internet as we all wished. If the magazine is hardly online, it does not includes a database for all notable Iranian films! Pouya sh (talk) 17:17, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:45, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:45, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Keep for the reasons stated above. --NSH001 (talk) 07:36, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[]
- Note I have struck The Bitter Dawn as the article has not been tagged. --NSH001 (talk) 07:36, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Thanks, I tagged it.Farhikht (talk) 11:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Strong Keep. Its often extremely hard to find online sources on Iranian films due to the cencorship laws in Iran. The Iranian government controls what gets published online regarding domestic films produced. Clarket89 (talk) 14:26, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Most of these films have been produced by IRIB, you mean the government censured its own products?!Farhikht (talk) 16:01, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Clarket89 is right, all films and artists in Iran HAVE to get permission from the government prior to starting work. Yet the government places restrictions on the films (regardless of who the producer is, whether IRIB or other) after their production to prevent their "export". Thats a well known fact.Pouya sh (talk) 17:17, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Comment: Just to clarify, according to the Iranian constitution, all television and radio programs and channels are approved by IRIB. It has full censorship powers. That includes all singers, songwriters, film makers, producers, everyone! Therefore if the producer of some of these films is written as IRIB, that only means that the film is made by an Iranian in Iran, not that it is in anyway connected to the government nor that its political. So its not "the government's own products" as Farhikht says. A perfect example is The Circle (2000 film), a film approved by the Iranian government before production, but banned in Iran after production! The only reason why that film has online references is because it won the Golden Lion award in Italy. Pouya sh (talk) 19:03, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Keep. I agree with the comments above, also, I see that one of the articles had previously been tagged for deletion, and the result of that was a "Keep". UKAndyM (talk) 16:13, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[]

Keep all as notable to Iran is easily notable enough for en.Wikipedia. Lack of readily available online sources... specially for films from a country without a strong internet infrastructure, does not mean that hardcopy sources do not exist. With even the little offered here by other editors, I have a reasonable presumption of notability. Guideline does not demand that all such sources be brought to the fore within the next few days... only that we editors have a reasonable presumption that they exist. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 01:58, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.