Talk:Men Going Their Own Way

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Frequently asked questions

Q1: Why is MGTOW called anti-feminist and misogynist?

A1: Many published, reliable sources such as scholarly journals and books describe MGTOW as anti-feminist and/or misogynist,^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4] and no reliable sources contradicting these descriptors have been found.

Q2: Why is MGTOW linked to white supremacy and the alt-right?

A2: Again, the short answer is that reliable sources have described the overlap between members of MGTOW and white supremacist and/or alt-right movements.^[5]^[6]^[7]

Q3: But what if the sources are biased?

A3: Reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. If you have reliable sources that express contrary points of view or refute any statements in this article, please feel free to discuss them here. If you are unsure if a source is reliable, you can check to see if it is listed at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Sources or search the archives of Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard to see if its reliability has been discussed in the past.

Q4: How do I get something changed on this page?

A4: First, review the talk page and its archives to see if your concerns have been raised before. Collect at least one, but preferably several, independent, reliable sources that directly support the changes you want to make. (Personal experience with the MGTOW community doesn't count.) Then start a discussion on the talk page to obtain consensus for your changes. Finally, make a specific edit request, clearly indicating your proposed changes and the sources that support it.

References

^ Hodapp, Christa (2017). Men's Rights, Gender, and Social Media. Lanham, Md.: Lexington Books. pp. xvii–xviii. ISBN 978-1-49-852617-3.
^ Lin, Jie Liang (2017). "Antifeminism Online: MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way)". In Frömming, Urte Undine; Köhn, Steffen; Fox, Samantha; Terry, Mike (eds.). Digital Environments: Ethnographic Perspectives Across Global Online and Offline Spaces. Edition Medienwissenschaft. Transcript Verlag. p. 77. ISBN 978-3-8376-3497-6. JSTOR j.ctv1xxrxw.9.
^ Wright, Scott; Trott, Verity; Jones, Callum (2020). "'The pussy ain't worth it, bro': assessing the discourse and structure of MGTOW". Information, Communication & Society. 23 (6): 3–4. doi:10.1080/1369118X.2020.1751867. ISSN 1369-118X. S2CID 219023052. MGTOWs also contribute to the propagation of online harassment. Their contribution to a 'digital culture of misogyny' [...] combined with their rapid growth as other Manosphere groups face sanctions, positions them as an influential group within the Manosphere
^ Zuckerberg, Donna (2018). Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-674-97555-2. OCLC 1020311558.
^ Ging, Debbie; Siapera, Eugenia, eds. (2019). Gender Hate Online: Understanding the New Anti-Feminism. Cham, Switzerland: Springer Nature. p. x. ISBN 978-3-319-96226-9. OCLC 1108619233.
^ Zuckerberg, Donna (2018). Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-674-97555-2. OCLC 1020311558.
^ Nagle, Angela (2017). Kill All Normies: Online Culture Wars From 4Chan And Tumblr To Trump And The Alt-Right. Alresford, UK: Zero Books. p. 94. ISBN 978-1-78535-543-1.

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Carian, Emily K.; DiBranco, Alex; Ebin, Chelsea, eds. (2022). Male Supremacism in the United States: From Patriarchal Traditionalism to Misogynist Incels and the Alt-Right. Routledge. pp. 118, 122, 127–9, 134. ISBN 978-1-000-57622-1.
Harrod, Mary; Leonard, Suzanne; Negra, Diane, eds. (2021). "Introduction: Romance and social bonding in contemporary culture – before and after COVID-19". Imagining “We” in the Age of “I”. Abingdon, England: Routledge. doi:10.4324/9781003039365-1. ISBN 978-1-003-03936-5.
Krendel, Alexandra (2021). "From Sexism to Misogyny: Can Online Echo Chambers Stay Quarantined?". In Zempi, Irene; Smith, Jo (eds.). Misogyny as Hate Crime. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-000-43034-9.

Semi-protected edit request on 14 August 2022

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I would like the word misogynistic and white supremesist removed from this article. It's offensive to tar all men with the same brush. 94.175.115.150 (talk) 19:26, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[]

Not done the article isn't about "men" in general, it's about the group and it's ideology, which is well sourced. So it won't be removed. PRAXIDICAE🌈 19:32, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2022

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Edit so that readers understand it is not ran by white supremacists. This article is not accurate and strongly comes off as it is followed by racist ppl. Remove "overlap'. ChiefRunningBear91 (talk) 20:18, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[]

CLC ChiefRunningBear91 (talk) 20:18, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[]

Not done as per previous discussions. This also isn't exactly what the article says. PRAXIDICAE🌈 20:26, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 September 2022

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Remove the word misogynistic. 129.15.64.230 (talk) 20:26, 30 September 2022 (UTC) MGTOW is not misogynistic. Reading that in the first line makes this article lack credibility. It sounds like something written by an ultra feminist. MGTOW is about men recognizing that the current form and direction of dependent relationships with women (especially marriage in western countries) no longer benefits them, and making the choice to avoid those relationships since they now only mostly benefit women.[]

Not done: That is how the movement is described in reliable sources. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:41, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[]

Read the FAQ. Acroterion (talk) 22:27, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[]

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2022

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MGTOW is not "misogynistic" it's just men going their own way. Is feminism listed as "misandristic"? A movement isn't misogynistic, individuals are. Wikipedia is making a blanket statement based on individual behaviours. RP ad2022 (talk) 18:55, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[]

Not done: See "Q1: Why is MGTOW called anti-feminist and misogynist?" at the top of this page as well as the response just prior to this one. General Ization ^Talk 18:58, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[]

Pierre Poilievre

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

‹ The template Edit semi-protected is being considered for merging. ›

How is the section on Poilievre of historical relevance? He has no known involvement with the community and was unaware of the hidden tag that was likely added without his knowledge. This should be removed unless there is a clear connection between him (or his online content) and the community. 129.222.184.120 (talk) 01:42, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[]

The tags were on his own YouTube channel, as covered by reliable sources. It is not the role of the Wikipedia to prove a negative for you. Zaathras (talk) 01:59, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[]

I don't think it should be removed, but I do think we could trim it a bit. It's punching above its weight class in the History section. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:00, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[]

Yeah, I think someone vying to be the leader of a G7 nation being tied to MGTOW is definitely relevant, but the current text is a bit much. Not sure it needs to include a section about how hashtags work. 174.138.198.183 (talk) 16:22, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[]

I 100% agree. It's disgusting that Wikipedia is being used to amplify a political attack campaign. These edits need to be reverted, they have no place here. --Bananas21ca (talk) 16:14, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[]

Note: I'm closing this request while it is under discussion, per template instructions. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:36, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[]

Discussion Regarding Recent Edit Requests

It is stated in the faq's that no reliable sources contrary to the "misogynist" label have been provided. If I can provide some, would anyone be willing to help me cite them?

I would also like to call attention to WP:IMPARTIAL - Wikipedia shouldn't be engaging in this debate, but simply documenting it. Our reputation as a non-partisan purveyor of information is at stake. Sober Reasoning (talk) 14:27, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[]

I'd be willing to help add content cited to such sources. Please read WP:RS for guidance on what counts as a reliable source. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:46, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[]

@Sober ReasoningBut also see WP:FALSEBALANCE. Doug Weller talk 14:53, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[]

[1] Hodapp, Christa (2017). Men's Rights, Gender, and Social Media. Lanham, Md.: Lexington Books. pp. xvii–xviii. ISBN 978-1-49-852617-3.

[2] Lin, Jie Liang (2017). "Antifeminism Online: MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way)". In Frömming, Urte Undine; Köhn, Steffen; Fox, Samantha; Terry, Mike (eds.). Digital Environments: Ethnographic Perspectives Across Global Online and Offline Spaces. Edition Medienwissenschaft. Transcript Verlag. p. 77. ISBN 978-3-8376-3497-6. JSTOR j.ctv1xxrxw.9.

[3] Wright, Scott; Trott, Verity; Jones, Callum (2020). "'The pussy ain't worth it, bro': assessing the discourse and structure of MGTOW". Information, Communication & Society. 23 (6): 3–4. doi:10.1080/1369118X.2020.1751867. ISSN 1369-118X. S2CID 219023052. MGTOWs also contribute to the propagation of online harassment. Their contribution to a 'digital culture of misogyny' [...] combined with their rapid growth as other Manosphere groups face sanctions, positions them as an influential group within the Manosphere

[4] Zuckerberg, Donna (2018). Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-674-97555-2. OCLC 1020311558.

[5] Ging, Debbie; Siapera, Eugenia, eds. (2019). Gender Hate Online: Understanding the New Anti-Feminism. Cham, Switzerland: Springer Nature. p. x. ISBN 978-3-319-96226-9. OCLC 1108619233.

[6] Zuckerberg, Donna (2018). Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-674-97555-2. OCLC 1020311558.

[Nagle-7] Nagle, Angela (2017). Kill All Normies: Online Culture Wars From 4Chan And Tumblr To Trump And The Alt-Right. Alresford, UK: Zero Books. p. 94. ISBN 978-1-78535-543-1.

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