Talk:Men Going Their Own Way

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Frequently asked questions

Q1: Why is MGTOW called anti-feminist and misogynist?

A1: Many published, reliable sources such as scholarly journals and books describe MGTOW as anti-feminist and/or misogynist,^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4] and no reliable sources contradicting these descriptors have been found.

Q2: Why is MGTOW linked to white supremacy and the alt-right?

A2: Again, the short answer is that reliable sources have described the overlap between members of MGTOW and white supremacist and/or alt-right movements.^[5]^[6]^[7]

Q3: But what if the sources are biased?

A3: Reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. If you have reliable sources that express contrary points of view or refute any statements in this article, please feel free to discuss them here. If you are unsure if a source is reliable, you can check to see if it is listed at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Sources or search the archives of Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard to see if its reliability has been discussed in the past.

Q4: How do I get something changed on this page?

A4: First, review the talk page and its archives to see if your concerns have been raised before. Collect at least one, but preferably several, independent, reliable sources that directly support the changes you want to make. (Personal experience with the MGTOW community doesn't count.) Then start a discussion on the talk page to obtain consensus for your changes. Finally, make a specific edit request, clearly indicating your proposed changes and the sources that support it.

References

^ Hodapp, Christa (2017). Men's Rights, Gender, and Social Media. Lanham, Md.: Lexington Books. pp. xvii–xviii. ISBN 978-1-49-852617-3.
^ Lin, Jie Liang (2017). "Antifeminism Online: MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way)". In Frömming, Urte Undine; Köhn, Steffen; Fox, Samantha; Terry, Mike (eds.). Digital Environments: Ethnographic Perspectives Across Global Online and Offline Spaces. Edition Medienwissenschaft. Transcript Verlag. p. 77. ISBN 978-3-8376-3497-6. JSTOR j.ctv1xxrxw.9.
^ Wright, Scott; Trott, Verity; Jones, Callum (2020). "'The pussy ain't worth it, bro': assessing the discourse and structure of MGTOW". Information, Communication & Society. 23 (6): 3–4. doi:10.1080/1369118X.2020.1751867. ISSN 1369-118X. S2CID 219023052. MGTOWs also contribute to the propagation of online harassment. Their contribution to a 'digital culture of misogyny' [...] combined with their rapid growth as other Manosphere groups face sanctions, positions them as an influential group within the Manosphere
^ Zuckerberg, Donna (2018). Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-674-97555-2. OCLC 1020311558.
^ Ging, Debbie; Siapera, Eugenia, eds. (2019). Gender Hate Online: Understanding the New Anti-Feminism. Cham, Switzerland: Springer Nature. p. x. ISBN 978-3-319-96226-9. OCLC 1108619233.
^ Zuckerberg, Donna (2018). Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-674-97555-2. OCLC 1020311558.
^ Nagle, Angela (2017). Kill All Normies: Online Culture Wars From 4Chan And Tumblr To Trump And The Alt-Right. Alresford, UK: Zero Books. p. 94. ISBN 978-1-78535-543-1.

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Semi-protected edit request on 21 November 2021

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

MGTOW is not misogynistic. Barrybranton1 (talk) 18:32, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[]

Not done Requests need to be in the (change X to Y) format and be backed up by reliable sources. Black Kite (talk) 18:41, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[]

Uhhhhh. This don’t seem right

That first paragraph paints a picture I’m not sure is fair. I don’t see how men not doing the nasty is tastier… 2600:1700:8150:B110:5CEC:94F4:E531:7237 (talk) 15:40, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[]

See the FAQ above for more info, but in a nutshell: the current text is supported by reliable sources, and if you want it to change, you will need to provide reliable sources that support your view. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 16:43, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[]

This page is bias

Please allow editing 2600:1700:7130:8140:98C4:E5F4:A2CB:EE44 (talk) 02:42, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[]

The place to ask for changes in protection is thataway: WP:RFPP, but you'll need a better argument than "this page is bias" (and you'll need reliable sources that support your claims if you want to actually get any of your changes to stick). Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 02:49, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[]
- @Writ Keeper: Note that most editors that claim POV-pushing or any kind of bias in this article do not think the reliable sources are not there. They think the sources are not represented well and/or information is missing. For example: one regular comment is the use of the word 'misogynist' in the lead section. In the archives, you can find a substantive discussion between me and a regular editor about the placing of this word, and how it might not be the best idea to overemphasize this characteristic by placing it in the first sentence of the lead section, especially when the sources are not that reliable and do not place such emphasis. Never did I ever hit a wall that hard on Wiki, to the point that I suspect WP:OWN. You could imagine that less regular editors are scared off pretty quickly. I think your response to the IP editor here is also kind of discouraging: bashing their argument and setting the bar to an edit unnecessarily high is not helpful. For the latter, I could only say that edits do not always require new reliable sources. Changing the representation of sources, placement of statements and copy editing are edits that do not require new sources. To make a long story short, please be kind to new or visiting editors, and don't shut the door like this. It's a tactic that I've seen too many times in the talk archives of this article, and it doesn't make this article and wiki better. From now on, I will suggest this to other users as well. Cheers, Pyrite Pro (talk) 20:59, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[]
  - Concur with Writ Keeper. Some situations are WP:SKYISBLUE territory. Wikipedia is not censored and is written for the reader. If someone comes to this article, they should be told what this organisation is in the lede, with further detail expanding on that, further on. If we are truthful about an organisation, or an article subject, especially a divisive one, then inevitably some people will be disgruntled. We write per WP:NPOV and what the sources say. We can hide what this organisation is until later in the article, and use nice words to describe it, but that's not the way Wikipedia works. If that annoys the odd random IP, so be it. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 21:23, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[]
    First, mind that IP users are HUMAN too, so 'odd random IP' might not be the best descriptor for the discussion starter, even a bit hostile. IP users have the full right to not be registered. I would humbly recommend retraction of that statement. I'm not going to discuss the contents of this page at this moment. I'm only commenting on the way that dozens of fairly new or anonymous editors are treated on these talk pages, and that more experienced editors are regularly hiding behind a shield of policy and fairly harsh words to keep the status quo, and are therefore discouraging boldness or constructive edits. Of course we try to write from a NPOV, but dozens of editors coming to this talk page to tell us that there might be something off in this article might be at least an incentive to discuss instead of discourage. And of course, this talk page also attracts lots of biased editors, but that does not justify harsh and unconstructive behaviour. Cheers, Pyrite Pro (talk) 00:10, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[]
  - I question the competence of anyone who thinks WP:RS is an "unnecessarily high" bar. Writ keeper didn't say anything about new sources. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 21:47, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[]

[1] Hodapp, Christa (2017). Men's Rights, Gender, and Social Media. Lanham, Md.: Lexington Books. pp. xvii–xviii. ISBN 978-1-49-852617-3.

[2] Lin, Jie Liang (2017). "Antifeminism Online: MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way)". In Frömming, Urte Undine; Köhn, Steffen; Fox, Samantha; Terry, Mike (eds.). Digital Environments: Ethnographic Perspectives Across Global Online and Offline Spaces. Edition Medienwissenschaft. Transcript Verlag. p. 77. ISBN 978-3-8376-3497-6. JSTOR j.ctv1xxrxw.9.

[3] Wright, Scott; Trott, Verity; Jones, Callum (2020). "'The pussy ain't worth it, bro': assessing the discourse and structure of MGTOW". Information, Communication & Society. 23 (6): 3–4. doi:10.1080/1369118X.2020.1751867. ISSN 1369-118X. S2CID 219023052. MGTOWs also contribute to the propagation of online harassment. Their contribution to a 'digital culture of misogyny' [...] combined with their rapid growth as other Manosphere groups face sanctions, positions them as an influential group within the Manosphere

[4] Zuckerberg, Donna (2018). Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-674-97555-2. OCLC 1020311558.

[5] Ging, Debbie; Siapera, Eugenia, eds. (2019). Gender Hate Online: Understanding the New Anti-Feminism. Cham, Switzerland: Springer Nature. p. x. ISBN 978-3-319-96226-9. OCLC 1108619233.

[6] Zuckerberg, Donna (2018). Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-674-97555-2. OCLC 1020311558.

[Nagle-7] Nagle, Angela (2017). Kill All Normies: Online Culture Wars From 4Chan And Tumblr To Trump And The Alt-Right. Alresford, UK: Zero Books. p. 94. ISBN 978-1-78535-543-1.

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