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Dover's future

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How about news on Dover's future plans, the Dover Harbour Board redevelopment? There has been a lot of local press and is pretty major. There is of course the long-running St. James's area redevelopment plans that should get a mention. IJMacD 22:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[]

Vandalism

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Though 198.54.202.242 vandalised a couple of times earlier in the day, his/her final edit did actually identify an inaccuracy in the article: there does now appear to be a regular Dover-Boulogne ferry again. Will amend the article to reflect this. Matthewmayer 19:03, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Moved from article

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I have moved this from the article cause I'm not sure what to do with it.

Local radio - Neptune Radio, Dover's own station

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Dover's local radio station came to air as Neptune Radio on the 29th September 1997 at 7am after closing as a month long trial at 3am the same morning. The trial station was known as "The Sound" which broadcast both to White Cliffs Country (Dover) and Shepway (Folkestone) as two stations "Shepway Sound" and "White Cliffs Sound" throughout the 1990's. The station was due to come on air as "The Sound" however changed it's name to Neptune Radio due to it's closeness to the sea. The station actually has it's roots in the 1970's as pirate radio station Channel Radio, run by Dovorian Eddie Austin. Austin also was one of the founder members of Invicta FM, Kent's commercial wide station and also worked on Radio Caroline. He got numerous fines but vowed to keep fighting until the town had it's own licence. Channel Radio broadcast only over the Dover area. The station came on air in 1997 broadcasting from one of the oldest buildings in Dover, next door to the Kent Messenger offices at 7 Church Street, near to the town's Market Square being a central location. The station has it's own mascot "King Neptune" and was a truly local station with attendance at numerous local events. It broadcast on 96.4 FM (Folkestone) and 106.8FM (Dover) and won UK Radio Station of the Year twice in 1999 and 2000. It's successful format was later applied to it's sister stations Arrow in Hastings and Sovereign Radio in Eastbourne when the station was bought by Radio Investments limited. A group from Neptune Radio also applied for the Ashford licence under the name Ashford FM spearheaded by Mark Carter, however they did not gain the licence. In 2001 the Kent Messenger bought Neptune Radio and moved the station not long after from Dover to Folkestone however still using the Dover offices for news reports. In 2003 the station was a rebranded as KM-fm Dover & Folkestone, the end of the era of local radio as from now on programming was networked with other KM-fm's with news piped in from Canterbury. Eddie Austin now lives in Malaysia. Recently the KM-fm offices/studios and Kent Messenger Offices in Dover moved to the old Dover Express offices in the High Street, Dover with a KM-fm sign, so perhaps there are going to be studios in Dover again with local programming. However Neptune Radio was a successful station reaching 30,000 people a week. KM-fm however still has yet to prove it can be as good as Neptune Radio.

This is rather POV and looks like it has been copied from somewhere. perhaps it should be NPOV ed and put in its own article somewhere. I dont see how this much detail about a radio station can be justified on the main dover page. Any thoughts anyone. G-Man 20:04, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Dover's clossness to France:

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It is the closest English point of proximity to France and continental Europe being only 21 miles (34 kilometres) from the French port of Calais. The French name of Dover is Douvres, pronounced [duvʀ]. It is famous for its white cliffs, which are made of chalk. The cliffs gave Britain its nickname of Albion, meaning "white". The town's name derives from the Brythonic word for water.

Dover is not the clossest point to france, i belever St margrate at Cliff is closser. it is the closest port. but to say its the closest POINT is misleading. as of now, im not quite sure what is the closest point. tooto 2 July 2005 13:51 (UTC)

Cleanup needed (15:47, 18 July 2006 (UTC))

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I've begun cleaning this article up (wikifying, moving images for better distribution, etc.), but a lot more is needed. Especially in need is the History section (and below, to a lesser extent).

History Section (18:55 6 September 2006 BST )

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The history section jumps rather alarmingly from the Romans to post Conquest times. Did nothing interesting happen there?

Cleaned up infobox a bit

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Cleaned up and added the essential info to the infobox.

The population counts from the census read as follows: 

K91900 Dover Urban Area	39,078
 K91901 Dover			34,087
 K91902 Whitfield		4,991

I chose the urban count, please change if that isn't correct. Hjbotha 14:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[]

Collaboration

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As mentioned on the Project Kent page, I am trying out an idea on a collaboration technique.

I have created a subpage which contains a section for every section on the main Dover article page. This makes it easier to keep track of specific comments and suggestions, whilst keeping the main talk page free of clutter.

To start with, I would suggest reading through the article, making comments as you go. Hopefully, a few people will voice an opinion, and we can start improving the article. At this stage, the collaboration page is useful for editors working on a particular section.

I have used the technique before, but this will be the first time it has had its own page. I welcome any comments or suggestions at Template talk:Collaborate. MortimerCat 16:09, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[]

I declare the experiment an absolute failure!!! MortimerCat 18:49, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[]

More vandalism?

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If not purely mischievous, the comment "It is also famous for its large population of Homosexuals" is any rate bizarre! Grubstreet 11:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[]

Part rewrite

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I have begun the rewriting of this article. Originally it was almost completely a series of lists, against Wiki polcy. So far I have:

  • rewritten the introduction, making it just a summary of the article
  • added a geography section
  • moved the history section to a new article History of Kent (also to be rejigged). I have written a summary para here
  • Collected together what were disparate statements under logical headings.
  • I still have to bring the remaining sections under the same format, including the list of people most of whom are too modern!

I did not understand why there was a long list of blogs; and many of the - too many IMO -references just repeated each other: never mind the quality, feel the width idea, I guess!

Please bear with me while I complete the task Peter Shearan (talk) 10:27, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[]

I have just breathed a sigh of relief that the most important sections of the article are ready for the public gaze. Note that:
As I said - ready for the public gaze, but I hope it reads these notes as well!!

Peter Shearan (talk) 15:18, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[]

Sale to France

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what is this? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249194/Dover-symbol-British-sovereignty-sold-French-help-reduce-debt.html#ixzz0etxiHFeP I passed through this on the internet a few times and I'm not sure if it's true or not Shiftadot (talk) 15:18, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[]

Requested move

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move or rename either page, though the possibility for a change in policy resulting from an ongoing discussion at the Village Pump remains. —Soap— 12:54, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[]

(edit conflict) With valid points on both sides, there is simply too much opposition. Change to any current situation needs a degree of agreement, which is not showing here. It is clear that this requested move has failed to gain consensus in any form. Therefor, I'm closing this discussion as no consensus to move. — Edokter • Talk • 13:05, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[]

{{movereq}}

Dover → Dover, Kent — There are several meanings of Dover besides the British city. For example, there is Dover, Delaware, which is the state capital of the U.S. state of Delaware and has a population similar to that of Dover, England. There is also Dover (district), which serves as the government district around the British city. In addition, Dover is also used as the name for several other places in multiple countries, as a surname, and as the name of a few companies and objects. Dough4872 01:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[]

OK, so it's taken eight years to realize something was wrong with an article's name. If it's been broken, it can be fixed at any time. But to say it's an American power grab my Floyd, Dough and I is redick. Absolutely redick. Purplebackpack89 02:28, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Whether or not it is a "major regional centre" seems irrelevant - it is the major port of entry into England from overseas, and known nationally - and internationally in Europe - for that reason. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:29, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Dover, DE is known throughout the U.S., which has a population much larger than that of the UK, as a state capital, home of a NASCAR race track, and the site of Dover Air Force Base, which has the only military mortuary in the continental US. Dough4872 15:16, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Yes, but its known as either Dover, DE or Dover, Delaware, and the relevant populations of the US and the UK are not greatly relevant - I wouldn't be surprised if more US citizens had an ancestor from Dover than one from Dover, DE. ϢereSpielChequers 16:46, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[]
At this point, I don't think the argument should be about which Dover is more important. The motivation for the move is due to the fact "Dover" is ambiguous and used for several places besides the British city and the state capital of Delaware. There are 5 Dovers in Canada, 1 in Singapore, the UK one, 26 in the United States (including Dover, DE), and several places called Dover Township. In addition, there are at least 9 people with a surname of Dover and several corporations and landmarks that have Dover in them, in both the US and the UK. Another point of argument I have made is the fact Britsh cities shouldn't be exempt from disambiguation unless they are large cities such as London. This case would apply to Dover as well as other cities such as Plymouth. Dough4872 21:55, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Primary topic isn't just highest population. DC T•C 21:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[]
At this point, what Dover is the most populated or most recognized doesn't matter. It is the fact there are too many meanings of Dover for one article to have the priority, whereas "Dover" being a dab page is the best option. Dough4872 22:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[]
It's a good thing it isn't 1684 then, or we'd be doing this for nothing. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 14:39, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Age alone is hardly enough to make a determination of primary topic. (Elsewise, we'd have Boston, Lincolnshire at the base name!) Powers T 14:54, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Yeah, and we'd have Washington, Tyne and Wear (a small village). Age and historical importance don't mean everything Purplebackpack89 18:44, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[]
We also need to think about whether or not historical importance is couched in the guidelines for PRIMARYTOPIC... which it isn't Purplebackpack89 18:44, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[]
If you were an American school student and learned your state capitals, you should have heard of it. Dough4872 22:53, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[]
I didn't say I'd never heard of it, I merely pointed out that the rest of the world is more likely to think of one of the world's busiest ferry ports!--Ykraps (talk) 06:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Primary topic determination is a relative consideration. That is, you can't just look at one topic and decide if it is primary or not based on its own importance. You have to look at others uses of the same name, and, if they are significant enough (as established by page view counts, for example), then there is no primary topic, no matter how important the first use may seem to be. --Born2cycle (talk) 03:40, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]
As I've pointed out in other discussions Solomon stopped short of actually 'disambiguating' the kid. The 'wise' bit was in his determining which was the 'primary' mother without destroying anything. Disambiguating absolutely everything ambiguous just makes Wikipedia an arid resource. Where there is a primary topic it should be applied. 86.26.8.192 (talk) 16:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[]
  • Support making Dover the disambiguation page per Viridiscalculus. Dover means many things in both countries. In the US, it is a state capital and a major sporting venue (the speedway). In the UK is is a city and a set of cliffs about which a song was written. No one of these should gain a claim as the primary topic. Imzadi 1979 → 01:54, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Please try to stop being so insular. Dover is much more than that. This has nothing to do nationalism (not on my part anyway). I have opposed moving Boston because Boston, Massachusets is the primary topic and I am opposing moving Dover because Dover (UK) is the primary topic.--Ykraps (talk) 06:55, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Dover UK is not the primary topic, neither is Dover, DE or any other town called Dover. Due to this fact, Dover needs to be a dab page due to the lack of a primary topic. Dough4872 15:30, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Dover (UK) has a rich history going back to its first settlers some 6000 years ago. It is home to Dover castle, Roman and Napoleonic forts, a Roman lighthouse and the world's oldest maritime vessel. Dover is 'the lock and key of England' as recognised by Julius Ceasar, William the Conqueror, Napoleon and Hitler (none of these people are British by the way). It was of paramount importance during both World wars, it is one of the 'Cinque Ports', it is at the end of the world's busiest shipping lane and it is the world's busiest ferry port. If it doesn't qualify as a primary topic, what on earth does? Apparently Google seems to think its the primary topic too.--Ykraps (talk) 21:29, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Historical value does not automatically make it the primary topic. Dough4872 04:07, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]
These things hold true to this day. Dover (UK) is of strategic importance to your country too!--Ykraps (talk) 07:33, 27 October 2010 (UTC) (Is there any particular reason why this comment was removed?--Ykraps (talk) 12:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)).[]
I am not saying that Dover UK is unimportant. I am saying there are other notable meanings of Dover that warrant "Dover" to be a dab page. Dough4872 15:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Remember, those 19172 views include those from anyone who gets there incorrectly because it is currently at the plain name, Dover. But even if we ignore that (which probably accounts for several thousand false hits), that means it only gets 30% more hits than the Delaware Dover. That hardly meets the "much more likely than any other" criteria clearly set out at WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.

There is no primary topic for "Dover"; the dab page must be at Dover. --Born2cycle (talk) 03:34, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]

I rather think you have debunked your previous argument. The fact that Dover (US) is a state capital is only important in one country. Dover (UK) is renowned internationally! To suggest that if Paris, Texas became a state capital, it should be given equal footing to the capital of France beggars belief. If Washington, Tyne and Wear became a county town do you think Washington DC should go to a dab page?--Ykraps (talk) 07:15, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Agree with Ykraps that I don't see the logic, or convention, that if two places are the capitals of territories they must be disambiguated on that basis. MRSC (talk) 09:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]

Remember also that the views for Dover, Delaware include those (many, I suspect) who got there by looking for...Dover, Delaware. The state name is not just a disambiguator. It is the way many people refer to the place. --Mhockey (talk) 13:29, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]

Many people refer to London as "London, England". Should we make that move as well? Keep in mind that at 350 million residents, the US has about half of the population of the entirety of Europe. If 62,000,000 Brits were taught in school that Dover is the point of entry to Europe, and 350,000,000 Americans were taught that Dover is the capital city of Delaware, then there is a very large discrepancy. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 15:15, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]
You appear to have forgotten about the rest of the English speaking world! As I keep saying, the test is an international one.--Ykraps (talk) 17:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Another thing to keep in mind is that most of the English-speaking world lives in North America and may have little idea about Dover, England. The British city is known mainly in Europe, where the only prevelant area of English speakers is the British Isles. This area has less people than the US and Canada. In the US, many people may think of Dover, DE and its associated topics like the raceway or the air force base, or another city named Dover, when hearing of the term rather than the British city. Dough4872 18:16, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Your lack of understanding about the rest of the world is quite frankly, frightening! Most of the English speaking world does not live in North America! There are of 400,000,000 English speakers in India alone, add to that 18,000,000 Australians, 3,500,000 Kiwis, 39,000,000 S. Africans, 89,000,000 Nigerians, 18,000,000 Ugandans, 26,000,000 Kenyans, the list goes on and on and on and I don't think this is the place for a geography lesson! Please feel free to check it out yourself.--Ykraps (talk) 09:25, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[]
I agree that Dover, DE is often referred to with the state name, and the current article title "Dover, Delaware" is perfectly fine. The problem is the term "Dover" alone can refer to many things, not just the British city. In addition, many residents in the Mid-Atlantic region of the United States will often refer to Dover, Delaware without a state name. Dough4872 15:19, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]
I would not draw that conclusion. I would discount the title of the legal case, which is not really about any Dover. If the purpose of the page views is to show how notable each place is, then I would count 47,556 for the English port (the White Cliffs, Dover, the Strait, the district) against 28,019 for Dover, DE (Dover, DE, the AF base and the speedway). But it's the low score for the dab page which is telling - if a user searching for Delaware lands on Dover, the hatnote would take him to the dab page, and that suggests to me that not many users searching for Dover, DE do land on Dover, i.e. the status quo does not seem to be causing much of a problem. --Mhockey (talk) 22:02, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]
The legal case pertains to an event that happened in Dover, Pennsylvania. Notability of the place is not why the move was suggested, it was suggested since Dover can mean multiple things on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean. This seems to be turning into a UK versus US argument where UK editors favor Dover, UK being the primary topic whereas US editors favor a dab page because of the notoriety of Dover, DE. The argument over whether Dover, DE or Dover, UK is more important is not the reason for the move, they are both equally important to their respective countries as Dover, DE is a state capital and Dover, UK is a major port. Aside from the capital of DE and the UK port, there are several other populated places named Dover including Dover, New Hampshire (28,880, nearly as many people as the UK city) and Dover, New Jersey (18,188). In addition, there are several landmarks with the name "Dover" in both the US and UK as mentioned above. Dover is also a surname and readers could be looking for someone with that last name. In conclusion, there are too many meanings of the word "Dover" for any one subject to be the primary topic. Dough4872 23:05, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Dough4872, would I be correct to summarise your position as 'if more than one page exists that could use the primary spot, a disambiguation page should always be used'? Just trying to understand your thinking ;-) GyroMagician (talk) 23:54, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Generally yes, as in this case. Many widely used terms for names and places, such as Columbus, Columbia, Lincoln, and Washington exist as dab pages. Dough4872 00:09, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[]
This is not a US v. UK argument. If anything it appears to be a Dough V. the rest of the world argument. You have already demonstrated your lack of knowledge regarding the R.O.W. by claiming most English speakers live in N. America. Perhaps if you knew more about the R.O.W. you wouldn't be making this proposal. And if you knew a bit more about N.A.T.O., you might also appreciate just how important Dover (UK) is to the US.--Ykraps (talk) 12:02, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[]
By the way, I am not the only person who supports a move. There are several other users who have also agreed that Dover needs to be a dab page because it has multiple meanings. Dough4872 15:32, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[]
People are turning it into a US versus UK argument. As for the rest of your point, List of countries by English-speaking population seems to indicate otherwise. At a combined 280 million speakers, North America has a significant percentage of the English speaking world. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 15:32, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[]
This source is labelled both inaccurate and incomplete! I have only given it a cursory glance but there appears to be at least 4 English speaking nations missing. My source (a Phillips Atlas) suggests that 40% of Indians speak English as a first language. Even using the much lower figure of 2 million plus, the majority of English speakers live outside N. America.--Ykraps (talk) 13:47, 29 October 2010 (UTC) BTW, who refers to London as London, England? Surely only those living in the U.S, Canada and Kiribati.[]
That's not true. The Delaware ending is a result of US place naming convention, designed to avoid nationalism as is the case with so very many British places. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 15:32, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Really? So someone if someone in California was talking about 'Dover' people would know that it was the Delaware one he was talking about rather than any of the other Dover's in the US? All of the non-local news reporting I have seen says Dover, Del. Quantpole (talk) 08:03, 29 October 2010 (UTC)[]
The AP Stylebook calls for the state name to be used after Dover, which is also the case for almost every other city except for a select list of larger cities. It is standard US convention to use the state name after cities. Dough4872 15:15, 29 October 2010 (UTC)[]
It is standard US convention - isn't this the point? It is a standard US convention, so US (and worldwide) readers expect to see it. It isn't a UK convention, so British places are very rarely listed in such a form. At WP, we should be trying to present all topics as readers expect to find them, no? GyroMagician (talk) 18:25, 29 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Just because it was the original Dover doesn't mean it is the primary use. In addition, it is debatable to say Dover, UK, or any other Dover, is known worldwide. Dough4872 20:36, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[]

CONSENSUS

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The seven day are up. The results appear to be:

  • Support: 10
  • Oppose: 17

Based on additional comments not preceded by a bold !vote term, the consensus appears to be further strengthened in favour of 'oppose'.

The consensus would therefore appear to be that Dover, in England has primacy by consensus. An admin will be along shortly to formally evaluate and close this debate.--Kudpung (talk) 22:49, 29 October 2010 (UTC)[]

It's not a vote. An admin will weigh in the arguments presented by both sides and come to a judgement. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 01:04, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[]
I still don't think there is any consensus for the move request, as 17-10 is not that great of a majority. In addition, we seem to be split on national lines on this issue, which applies to more than just this article. Dough4872 01:21, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[]
Please do not make WP:ADHOM arguments based on your personal speculation as to the nationality and unstated motivations of other contributors. Fæ (talk) 04:30, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[]
I've made a request at WP:AN for an uninvolved admin to close this RM. Mjroots2 (talk) 06:13, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name of article (again)

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A proposal to align the category name with the article name has prompted some editors to reopen last October's discussion. The discussion on the category is at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2011_August_23#Category:Town_of_Dover. --Mhockey (talk) 18:31, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[]

Dover-Calais ferry

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Dover Calais ferry is currently a redirect to P&O Ferries#Dover – Calais. As there are also other companies operating ferries on this route I don't think the current target is appropriate. You are invited to the discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2013 September 28#Dover Calais ferry regarding what would be better. Thryduulf (talk) 14:40, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[]

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The name of Dover Cliffs

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The article notes that the name, Dover, was in use by the time of Shakespeare but ignores the origin of the name from people who worked catching pigeons and collecting eggs on the dover cliffs. Surely there must be some record of this historically important economic activity. - Fartherred (talk) 02:53, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[]

It is known that pigeons originally nested on cliffs as documented at this Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife site. They were a source of food in antiquity. The word, dove, in English is older than the 13th century. So dovers must have worked on the dover cliffs long before Shakespeare.
It seems unlikely that the only surviving evidence of ancient wild dove catching is the dovecots that were attached to medieval castles and the name, Dover, for the cliffs where doves were caught to stock the dovecots. Still the dover cliffs are the likely initial source of doves for the medieval British islands. The Romans who brought the dovecot technology probably did not bring sufficient doves to stock the local industry. Can anyone find a reference for ancient wild dove catching? - Fartherred (talk) 19:18, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[]

Assessment comment

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The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Dover/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Perhaps - now that I have done some considerable work on the article, it could be re-assessed? Peter Shearan (talk) 15:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[]

Last edited at 16:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 13:46, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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flag and coat of arms

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http://www.ngw.nl/heraldrywiki/index.php?title=Dover_(England)

flag is same with Dover's Police, but you remove the Dover Police Crest, you zoom in on it, you simply take the Dover Crest, and you put it where the police Crest was, some others use a very white alternative flag with the Crest and some colored border-lines up and down only — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:4114:C800:2871:4943:BCD5:341C (talk) 01:04, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[]

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Picture before the end of the 'Economy' section needs a caption

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In my opinion, the picture before the end of the 'Economy' section in the article needs a caption as in my opinion it looks strange without one.

Proudzynski bombing 1914

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Should a mention of this be included in the article? The link [1] might help.SovalValtos (talk) 02:29, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[]

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