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Frequently asked questions

Q1: Why is MGTOW called anti-feminist and misogynist?

A1: Many published, reliable sources such as scholarly journals and books describe MGTOW as anti-feminist and/or misogynist,^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4] and no reliable sources contradicting these descriptors have been found.

Q2: Why is MGTOW linked to white supremacy and the alt-right?

A2: Again, the short answer is that reliable sources have described the overlap between members of MGTOW and white supremacist and/or alt-right movements.^[5]^[6]^[7]

Q3: But what if the sources are biased?

A3: Reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. If you have reliable sources that express contrary points of view or refute any statements in this article, please feel free to discuss them here. If you are unsure if a source is reliable, you can check to see if it is listed at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Sources or search the archives of Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard to see if its reliability has been discussed in the past.

Q4: How do I get something changed on this page?

A4: First, review the talk page and its archives to see if your concerns have been raised before. Collect at least one, but preferably several, independent, reliable sources that directly support the changes you want to make. (Personal experience with the MGTOW community doesn't count.) Then start a discussion on the talk page to obtain consensus for your changes. Finally, make a specific edit request, clearly indicating your proposed changes and the sources that support it.

References

^ Hodapp, Christa (2017). Men's Rights, Gender, and Social Media. Lanham, Md.: Lexington Books. pp. xvii–xviii. ISBN 978-1-49-852617-3.
^ Lin, Jie Liang (2017). "Antifeminism Online: MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way)". In Frömming, Urte Undine; Köhn, Steffen; Fox, Samantha; Terry, Mike (eds.). Digital Environments: Ethnographic Perspectives Across Global Online and Offline Spaces. Edition Medienwissenschaft. Transcript Verlag. p. 77. ISBN 978-3-8376-3497-6. JSTOR j.ctv1xxrxw.9.
^ Wright, Scott; Trott, Verity; Jones, Callum (2020). "'The pussy ain't worth it, bro': assessing the discourse and structure of MGTOW". Information, Communication & Society. 23 (6): 3–4. doi:10.1080/1369118X.2020.1751867. ISSN 1369-118X. S2CID 219023052. MGTOWs also contribute to the propagation of online harassment. Their contribution to a 'digital culture of misogyny' [...] combined with their rapid growth as other Manosphere groups face sanctions, positions them as an influential group within the Manosphere
^ Zuckerberg, Donna (2018). Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-674-97555-2. OCLC 1020311558.
^ Ging, Debbie; Siapera, Eugenia, eds. (2019). Gender Hate Online: Understanding the New Anti-Feminism. Cham, Switzerland: Springer Nature. p. x. ISBN 978-3-319-96226-9. OCLC 1108619233.
^ Zuckerberg, Donna (2018). Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-674-97555-2. OCLC 1020311558.
^ Nagle, Angela (2017). Kill All Normies: Online Culture Wars From 4Chan And Tumblr To Trump And The Alt-Right. Alresford, UK: Zero Books. p. 94. ISBN 978-1-78535-543-1.

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Carian, Emily K.; DiBranco, Alex; Ebin, Chelsea, eds. (2022). Male Supremacism in the United States: From Patriarchal Traditionalism to Misogynist Incels and the Alt-Right. Routledge. pp. 118, 122, 127–9, 134. ISBN 978-1-000-57622-1.
Harrod, Mary; Leonard, Suzanne; Negra, Diane, eds. (2021). "Introduction: Romance and social bonding in contemporary culture – before and after COVID-19". Imagining “We” in the Age of “I”. Abingdon, England: Routledge. doi:10.4324/9781003039365-1. ISBN 978-1-003-03936-5.
Krendel, Alexandra (2021). "From Sexism to Misogyny: Can Online Echo Chambers Stay Quarantined?". In Zempi, Irene; Smith, Jo (eds.). Misogyny as Hate Crime. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-000-43034-9.

Misogynistic?

While there are misogynists in mgtow forums, I don't think it's necessary to call all of mgtow as misogynistic. There are many good points that this group has about the current social climate and injustices males face; saying it's all misogynistic is a low blow. 2A01:598:D839:2E07:79A3:E7F3:DB6C:4968 (talk) 09:45, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[]

Read the FAQ at the top of this page. Acroterion (talk) 11:05, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[]

I'm not going to say MGTOW isn't misogynistic, but the FAQ is potentially undersourced for the sentence 'no reliable sources say otherwise'. What I'm saying is- is there some way one could quantify that, some link to a 'ref engine' of some sort saying that, so that these confusions weren't quite as common?Phil of rel (talk) 16:24, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[]

The actual statement is no reliable sources contradicting these descriptors have been found, which is true as far as this article is concerned. Sangdeboeuf (talk) 17:11, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[]

No reliable sources have been found to say they are misogynistic. Only far leftists would argue the sources used to make those arguments are reliable.```` DarkHorseSki (talk) 04:00, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[]

There are reliable sources in the article. That you keep trying to delete them, then come running to the talk page to scream "THERE'S NO SOURCES" isn't fooling anyone, I'm afraid. Zaathras (talk) 04:04, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[]

Link to female only separatism movement

Add second paragraph to lede “Female only separatism movements have existed since the 1970s, Feminist separation, lesbian separatism, though differing in many outlooks beyond disengagement from interacting with the opposite gender.”

Add it before the third paragraph.

Added lede based on Lesbian Separatism section of Feminist Seperatism page. From that page

Lesbian separatism[edit] Charlotte Bunch, an early member of The Furies Collective, viewed separatism as a strategy, a "first step" period, or temporary withdrawal from mainstream activism to accomplish specific goals or enhance personal growth.[12]

In addition to advocating withdrawal from working, personal or casual relationships with men, The Furies recommended that lesbian separatists relate "only (with) women who cut their ties to male privilege"[13] and suggest that "as long as women still benefit from heterosexuality, receive its privileges and security, they will at some point have to betray their sisters, especially Lesbian sisters who do not receive those benefits."[13] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:D591:5F10:7506:16B:872E:819 (talk) 22:28, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[]

There's already a link in the article to Separatism (via Male separatism), which explains both feminist and lesbian separatism. Do any published, reliable sources compare either to MGTOW? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sangdeboeuf (talk • contribs) 22:35, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[]

Can you point out the male separatism in Separatism? The gender section has this only on women, but no male one.

The relationship between gender and separatism is complex.[25] Feminist separatism is women's choosing to separate from ostensibly male-defined, male-dominated institutions, relationships, roles and activities.[26] Lesbian separatism advocates lesbianism as the logical result of feminism. Some separatist feminists and lesbian separatists have chosen to live apart in intentional community, cooperatives, and on land trusts.[27] Queer nationalism (or "Gay separatism") seeks a community distinct and separate from other social groups.[28][29] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:D591:5F10:7506:16B:872E:819 (talk) 22:48, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[]

I see no reason to mention this in the lead, the two have little to do with each other other than at the most basic level. Feminist separatism is the belief that the best way to tackle the patriarchal grip on society is to have their own spaces away from men. Women's studies' programs, women's colleges, or even lesbian bars. MGTOW is an inherently-misogynist, incel-fueled hated of women, and anger over continued rejection by them. Zaathras (talk) 00:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[]

Can you point out the male separatism in Separatism? The gender section has this only on women, but no male one.

The article should link to Male Separatism and Female Separatism since the most core tenant of each is to have as few interactions with the opposite gender as possible.

How and to what extreme MGTOW is misogynist is a distinctly different discussion and should not detract from linking it to other separatism Wiki pages. 2600:1700:D591:5F10:ECB1:8D34:6E7E:CC9C (talk) 17:51, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[]

That is not the core tenet of female separatism, hence my opposition to the inclusion. Zaathras (talk) 21:30, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[]

Author Marilyn Frye describes feminist separatism as "separation of various sorts or modes from men and from institutions, relationships, roles and activities that are male-defined, male-dominated, and operating for the benefit of males and the maintenance of male privilege – this separation being initiated or maintained, at will, by women."

that is from the lede of Feminist Separation and has the core tenant of separation from men and male defined institutions. Resultant of that separation is anti patriarchy.

Net is separation of one gender from another. 2600:1700:D591:5F10:B48D:7E25:F426:79A7 (talk) 15:41, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[]

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2022

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In History it should be added that "NO MA'AM" is the fictional acronym for National Organization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood which comes from the TV show Married with Children, Season 8, Episode 9, November 14, 1993. Hansdie (talk) 23:25, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. MadGuy7023 (talk) 23:31, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[]

misogynistic?

Please read the #FAQ. This is not a forum to discuss the general topic, this page is for discussions about specific improvements to this article, as supported by reliable sources. Grayfell (talk) 20:36, 28 May 2022 (UTC) IP is blocked for, among other things, demanding that feminists be banned from the Internet. Go figure. Acroterion (talk) 20:51, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I read the FAQ, I am discussing the article. The article says MGTOW is misogynistic when it's not and I simply pointed that out. specific improvements to this article... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:56A:F643:5500:11BD:6BC3:F207:39AB (talk) 20:42, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Bias

Read #FAQ above EvergreenFir (talk) 23:06, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This article is filled with bias opinions not based on facts. 2001:569:6FF3:5E28:90D7:7391:B6F4:E8B4 (talk) 22:59, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] Hodapp, Christa (2017). Men's Rights, Gender, and Social Media. Lanham, Md.: Lexington Books. pp. xvii–xviii. ISBN 978-1-49-852617-3.

[2] Lin, Jie Liang (2017). "Antifeminism Online: MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way)". In Frömming, Urte Undine; Köhn, Steffen; Fox, Samantha; Terry, Mike (eds.). Digital Environments: Ethnographic Perspectives Across Global Online and Offline Spaces. Edition Medienwissenschaft. Transcript Verlag. p. 77. ISBN 978-3-8376-3497-6. JSTOR j.ctv1xxrxw.9.

[3] Wright, Scott; Trott, Verity; Jones, Callum (2020). "'The pussy ain't worth it, bro': assessing the discourse and structure of MGTOW". Information, Communication & Society. 23 (6): 3–4. doi:10.1080/1369118X.2020.1751867. ISSN 1369-118X. S2CID 219023052. MGTOWs also contribute to the propagation of online harassment. Their contribution to a 'digital culture of misogyny' [...] combined with their rapid growth as other Manosphere groups face sanctions, positions them as an influential group within the Manosphere

[4] Zuckerberg, Donna (2018). Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-674-97555-2. OCLC 1020311558.

[5] Ging, Debbie; Siapera, Eugenia, eds. (2019). Gender Hate Online: Understanding the New Anti-Feminism. Cham, Switzerland: Springer Nature. p. x. ISBN 978-3-319-96226-9. OCLC 1108619233.

[6] Zuckerberg, Donna (2018). Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-674-97555-2. OCLC 1020311558.

[Nagle-7] Nagle, Angela (2017). Kill All Normies: Online Culture Wars From 4Chan And Tumblr To Trump And The Alt-Right. Alresford, UK: Zero Books. p. 94. ISBN 978-1-78535-543-1.

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@@ Line 77: / Line 77: @@
 This article is filled with bias opinions not based on facts. [[Special:Contributions/2001:569:6FF3:5E28:90D7:7391:B6F4:E8B4|2001:569:6FF3:5E28:90D7:7391:B6F4:E8B4]] ([[User talk:2001:569:6FF3:5E28:90D7:7391:B6F4:E8B4|talk]]) 22:59, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 {{abot}}
-== Clearly written by an immature feminazi ==
-This is so bias it should be deleted and written proper. It only goes to show why some men have taken this route. Do better, be better. Some people think this site is fact, dont convolute it with your opinions. [[Special:Contributions/174.59.196.230|174.59.196.230]] ([[User talk:174.59.196.230|talk]]) 21:01, 9 August 2022 (UTC)